Bioshock Spit Painting Bioshock Rapture Spit Painting Drawing Art

GoatBoy: snip

Well, that'due south certainly insanely lengthy; probably double the size of my post. Either style, I'll effort to keep this response fairly brief otherwise I have a feeling that this could become back and forth quite a great deal.

1. Your commencement definition was the one I expected the almost simply I unfortunately disagree as Dear Esther, one of your examples, is a game that I did indeed enjoy and practise believe is a game and, although I haven't played many, if any, others that are similarly branded equally not existence games like 30 Flights of Loving, I probably would experience the same about them also . Yet, I can completely admit that they are nearly certainly the type of games that non anybody - in fact, probably the majority - enjoys for rather obvious reasons.

Your second definition kind of depends on the context of the consequence I feel and, in Infinite'southward instance, I don't necessarily believe that setting the game in 1912, for example, in a city thick with racism is the designers trying too hard to say something nor do I retrieve the idea of it being in the clouds is "in the clouds, for the sake of it", if that makes sense (in other words, for the sake of having an interesting setting).

What I will say is that I can agree that the game was better in the first. Later a certain halfway signal where the game earth changes (trying to be vague to avoid spoilers but I'm certain you know what I mean) I retrieve some of the earlier issues of the game world are dropped. It made sense within the context of what happens just I was withal disappointed that they weren't adult more fully.

In either definition, though, the ane thing I would say is that I don't necessarily believe that they're going out of their manner to exist equally "artful" as possible. Every bit I said: I don't think that the city being set in the clouds is for the sake of information technology just as Rapture wasn't set underwater because it was a absurd setting, right? Whatever the case, though, I doubt we'll see eye to eye on this merely I definitely don't believe that Space is a game "trying desperately" to be recognised every bit art, especially considering I take a much broader definition of what games are art. But fair enough; I can encounter what you meant from your start post at present so thanks for the explanation.

ii. Hm, this is an interesting ane because I agree and disagree nigh the stance Space takes on, let'due south say again, racism, its nigh prominent theme although besides many of its others. Merely although I hold, because there clearly is a lack of choice to brand your own decision every bit a actor in regards to some of the games issues, I too don't necessarily believe that this is always a bad thing in a game that's trying to tell a story and, in cases of Infinite, I feel are sometimes unavoidable with the issue at hand.

Although games are interactive experiences I don't necessarily think that the master character or controllable one must be the avatar of the player he or herself. If a story is to centre around them, as with Infinite, and establish them equally their own character with their ain background then I think information technology's perfectly okay to have the one conclusion equally this game does, for case, or simply to steer the narrative in the i direction. Of class, this does only become to prove what you're saying in a mode, simply, on the other hand, I'm non so sure it's any different from telling a story in a book or a picture and bad considering of that. Although games in which the thespian makes their own decision are in many respects more interesting I don't recollect recall a game similar Infinite is, on the other mitt, a bad game for not allowing the histrion complete reign over Booker because I think that he is a well established character.

Storytelling in games is perchance the trickiest matter of all for a blueprint squad to piece together, though, which is why you practice indeed come across so many games with a "linear narrative" or a character on the ane path. Not many games really mesh it together perfectly well with the gameplay; i.east. I personally detect that cutscenes tin can take me out of the experience of a particularly immersive game (notation that I'm suggesting it'south a bad matter in every case though) and prefer to keep command in whatever scene that would possibly be a cutscene if another developer were to accept made information technology. Probably one of the all-time examples of games that get it correct, in my stance, is the One-half Life series in this respect.

However, even in the case of Infinite or any game like it, I'm non necessarily convinced that yous're being forced to meet things from their betoken of view as a player in whatever given scenario. I have a feeling that that is probably a very subjective experience though, and I tin can hold in the case of some games just non always others, like Infinite.

That all isn't very articulate, I know, simply, equally I said, I agree and disagree but I promise I didn't make a full mess trying to brand my position in either case clear. Honestly, storytelling in games is the trickiest one of all in my opinion. It'due south not an like shooting fish in a barrel thing to get perfectly correct.

Also, I'd simply like to say at this betoken that this isn't as brief equally I had hoped. At all.

three. Coming off your previous point I remember your position hither is quite clear and fair, particularly as I was split in opinion myself in one case I understood what you meant. The same applies here; I can't hold and disagree. In fact, I agree with what you meant at this point quite a scrap now that I've read it as, you're correct, the structure is more or less rinse and repeat for the most part (although I'd probably have to play the game again with this in mind to see how badly it's done). Notwithstanding, at the aforementioned time, I'thousand non really sure what else you could await from what is a shooter at middle, specially every bit I found the game did innovate new - although I will say not enough - enemies and challenges as it progressed quite well, which is a much better way of "mixing upwards" the straight line y'all suggested as how the game works at its cadre.

Where I disagree, and what I'd been getting at, was the "method" of the gameplay, so to speak, and how it was not-linear in that I constitute that in that location were multiple ways to approach each gunfight such that it wasn't just as rehash of the one before that and the ane before that, etc. keeping in mind how you'd advanced your grapheme'due south abilities and weapons (although this was most certainly too limited). In fact, I thought they were adequately inventive with how the differing levels created different possibilities. One thing I kept thinking was that some kind of stealth would have been really nice though. I can't retrieve if yous could use the wrench in Bioshock to silently kill enemies simply you could certainly be more sneaky and avoid a bunch of gunfights which, apart from ane level, I can't actually think doing in Infinite.

Why a split in my thoughts exists hither once more is just as you said: the storytelling and gameplay indeed don't mesh perfectly well. I however thought it was better than many other games and shooters, in item, have done it merely, as I tin can't wholly agree or disagree once more, I tin can't exactly say it was ideal in that case. If I had to blame 1 of the two I would stick with the e'er difficult storytelling every bit the gameplay was the more than solid, if a footling defective in way of its customisation, of the two.

4. That's off-white plenty I suppose; I had indeed thought y'all were strongly implying something else but I estimate that was just a poor choice of words. But, no, I wouldn't say it'southward specially unusual, especially given how rooted the setting is in its clearly well researched and detailed historical background, merely, then again, neither of u.s. piece of work there so who knows how good their programming team must exist if they're and then outweighed by the art team.

Your curt paragraph on Ken Levine is interesting but ***SPOILERS*** I disagree in regards to what you lot suppose was his mistake with role player selection as not just did I think information technology was some of the most logical sense to brand inside the context of the game itself just I also idea their was one estimation of the short visit to Rapture that people may not have picked upwardly on (worry not though as it's not some of the frankly idiotic attempts at tying the two games together that I've read). I talked about this with a friend of mine on Facebook and I tin can PM you it or post it here under spoiler tags if you like merely, granted, I had a unlike interpretation of the meaning of having no choice than you conspicuously did. Either way, I don't think it was a mistake at all. ***SPOILERS***

And that's all. And so much for brief, I know, but oh well. Respond at your ain discretion. :P

Post edited April 03, 2013 by Endzville

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Source: https://www.gog.com/forum/general_archive/bioshock_infinite_review/page8